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hstrybuf
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 12:16 am | 1st Post |
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While the news has been full of a recent incident in which a woman fell to her death from Norwegian Dawn as the ship was bound for Bermuda, three luckier passengers went overboard from cruise ships last March. Yes, they were lucky indeed. All three were rescued alive.
Is it that EASY to simply "fall" off a cruise ship? At Cruise Diva, we don't think so.
Read this and then please give us your opinions.
http://cruisediva.com/overboard.htm
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Liberty 10/07; Miracle 10/06; Navigator OTS 10/04; Legend 04/04; Grand Princess 09/03; Dawn Princess 01/03; Enchantment OTS 10/02; Destiny 01/02; Sensation 10/99
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Cruise Cat
Cruiser
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 12:27 am | 2nd Post |
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OMG - Deb, Can I actually post what I feel on this topic without some bleeding heart, easily offended, (won't say it), getting upset about it and getting it poofed, just like the "tounge in cheek" poll I posted on another board I used to frequent (it was honest, not crude or in bad taste)? That same person then became a Moderator of said frivilous board along with others who were allowed to say what they think, including politics, but the common people were not allowed to express their views.
I'm asking ahead of time, because I like this board, otherwise, I will post my thoughts on this topic in the appropriate off-topic forum.
Chuck
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Chuck
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hstrybuf
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 12:29 am | 3rd Post |
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| Go for it Chuck! We welcome all opinions, especially "honest, not crude or in bad taste"! Last edited on Sun May 25th, 2008 12:31 am by hstrybuf
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Deb - Research, research, research!
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Liberty 10/07; Miracle 10/06; Navigator OTS 10/04; Legend 04/04; Grand Princess 09/03; Dawn Princess 01/03; Enchantment OTS 10/02; Destiny 01/02; Sensation 10/99
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Catnip
Charter Member
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 12:51 am | 4th Post |
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hstrybuf wrote: Go for it Chuck! We welcome all opinions, especially "honest, not crude or in bad taste"!
What Deb said!!!!! We like to read the good as well as the bad and welcome open and honest opinions. Not everyone has to agree, but everyone is welcome to post their own opinions.
We even have a political thread here that has managed to stay pretty calm. 
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shoreguy
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:11 am | 5th Post |
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Even kids can fall overboard if their parents are stupid and elect to lift them onto tables. 
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hstrybuf
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:15 am | 6th Post |
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shoreguy wrote: Even kids can fall overboard if their parents are stupid and elect to lift them onto tables.
Some people just shouldn't procreate. 
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Deb - Research, research, research!
My pics: http://community.webshots.com/user/hstrycrsr
Liberty 10/07; Miracle 10/06; Navigator OTS 10/04; Legend 04/04; Grand Princess 09/03; Dawn Princess 01/03; Enchantment OTS 10/02; Destiny 01/02; Sensation 10/99
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Cruise Cat
Cruiser
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:15 am | 7th Post |
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OK - While I feel sad for the family and friends of those who have fallen off a cruise ship, the answer is "No" unless you are jumping intentionally or doing something really stupid, in which case 'Darwin Wins' (truth, not "crude"). The fact that someone wants to jump (suicide or to get attention) is not unique to cruise ships or to those with mental or abuse issues, and I for one am not going to cry, get upset, or not discuss a relevant cruise issue such as this because we later find out they did.
Balcony railings on cruise ships meet or greatly exceed height standards set by OSHA for things such as railings/chains on scaffolds and working platforms (48 inches if I remember correctly). This is why someone, unless they are 8 feet tall cannot just fall off of a ship.
First time cruisers need to understand, that statistically, an extremely small number of passengers ever fall off of a cruise ship (several each year out of millions), and for 99.999999999999% of these, it happens because of their actions (I don't know of any that it did not, but left it open in case someone can produce verifiable facts that it wasn't). To a lesser percentage, the same applies to people falling down stairs, etc, on cruise ships. Cruising is very safe.
Amazingly, you would think that the most at risk for falling off a cruise ship would be a child in a balcony stateroom. As a tribute to the parents of the children watching them or selecting an inside/non-balcony stateroom and the design of the balconies, I don't know of any cases in recent memory where a small child has fallen off a cruise ship, do you? Then, there must be something with older children (teenagers - yes still children) and us adults to cause them to fall off cruiseships.
(OK - I got to this point and realized that I had better read the Cruise Diva article first. I just did and amazingly we came to the same conclusions about tall people/basketball superstars, children, and adults doing something stupid/intentional)
Now that we have isolated this to adults, lets discuss the categories:
Suicides - 'Jumpers' are going to injure themselves at the place of opportunity, whether it is a cruise ship, a building, stairway, bridge, etc. The bad rep that cruiselines get is similar to the one they get for 'Norovirus'. These things occur many places; but, the cruiselines seem to find themselves in the news for it.
Climbing on Railings - Whether they are drunk (or high), showing off, daredevils, practical jokers (I want to knock on your balcony door and surprise you), or were locked out on their balconies and can't wait for help, these are ACTIONS that the people have taken that have CONSEQUENCES. Yes - Getting drunk, stoned, or even side effects from medication are things people have control over that are the results of their actions. Do not take medication for the first time on a cruise ship if you do not know what the consequences are!
Mental Instability - A special sub-category of Suicides. These people feel a need to jump, but why the heck are they on a cruise ship that allows them access to harm themselves in the first place!? In the case of the young gentleman a few years ago that had abuse issues and was not stable - HIS GUARDIANS AND OTHERS SHOULD HAVE NEVER LET HIM ON A CRUISE SHIP IN THE FIRST PLACE! Likewise, he should not have been going to a party on a rooftop, or walking alone on a bridge, etc. Somewhere, even if way back, someone let these people get exposed to these things, even if it was a judge who allowed their release.
Murder - Enough said.
Adverse Weather - Help me on this... I am still trying to find the ship with such a layout that a person absolutely has to go out on a deck/balcony near a railing where they can fall off. Just stay in and call Room Service.
I may have missed a category or two.
____________________
Chuck
Brilliance - 8/21/2008!
Miracle - 2007
Conquest - 2006
Rhapsody - 2005
Vision - 2003
Rhapsody - 2002
Inspiration - 2001
Jubilee - 1999
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Cruise Cat
Cruiser
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:18 am | 8th Post |
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shoreguy wrote: Even kids can fall overboard if their parents are stupid and elect to lift them onto tables.
OK, I rescind part of my comments congratulating parents for keeping their tottelers out of trouble
____________________
Chuck
Brilliance - 8/21/2008!
Miracle - 2007
Conquest - 2006
Rhapsody - 2005
Vision - 2003
Rhapsody - 2002
Inspiration - 2001
Jubilee - 1999
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BeckyThane
Super Cruiser
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:38 am | 9th Post |
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Cruise Cat wrote: Adverse Weather - Help me on this... I am still trying to find the ship with such a layout that a person absolutely has to go out on a deck/balcony near a railing where they can fall off. Just stay in and call Room Service.
Chuck, I agree with everything you've said, and would add to the above -- Adverse Weather or Conditions -- As a testament to the safety of modern cruise ships, not a single person went overboard as a result of "The Big Tilt" of the Crown Princess in 7/2006. I would say that if one couldn't accidentally fall off the ship in that incident, then the chances of accidentally falling off the ship as a result of adverse conditions is miniscule.
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BeckyThane
Super Cruiser
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:40 am | 10th Post |
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now how'd that happen?  Last edited on Sun May 25th, 2008 01:40 am by BeckyThane
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hstrybuf
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:40 am | 11th Post |
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I'll add to the Adverse Weather.
A couple of years ago on the Miracle, we had some pretty high winds and heavy rains, not to mention the great waves that go along with those conditions. All the outdoor decks were closed except one area on the aft. Signs were posted on all doors leading to these decks and, if I remember correctly, announcements were made.
Still, we saw people push open those doors and walk right outside. Thankfully, very few people. In this case, they were either totally oblivious, stupid, unconcerned for their safety so that they might do as they pleased or did I mention stupid?
____________________
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My pics: http://community.webshots.com/user/hstrycrsr
Liberty 10/07; Miracle 10/06; Navigator OTS 10/04; Legend 04/04; Grand Princess 09/03; Dawn Princess 01/03; Enchantment OTS 10/02; Destiny 01/02; Sensation 10/99
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Cruise Cat
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:46 am | 12th Post |
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| OK - I feel really good about this board now. I just said some of the same things I said on that frivilous board over a year ago and it didn't get poofed...
____________________
Chuck
Brilliance - 8/21/2008!
Miracle - 2007
Conquest - 2006
Rhapsody - 2005
Vision - 2003
Rhapsody - 2002
Inspiration - 2001
Jubilee - 1999
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Catnip
Charter Member
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:02 pm | 13th Post |
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Cruise Cat wrote: OK - While I feel sad for the family and friends of those who have fallen off a cruise ship, the answer is "No" unless you are jumping intentionally or doing something really stupid, in which case 'Darwin Wins' (truth, not "crude").
LOL!!!!!!!! My DH would have said the same thing!!!!!!!
Last edited on Sun May 25th, 2008 01:05 pm by Catnip
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32 previous cruises..
Next up: Last Atlantic crossing on QE 2 10-08/Celebrity Solstice 1-09/Jewel of the Seas 3/09
**Triangles Are For Losers!**
Don't touch that triangle!
Adopt a pet from your local shelter & save a life!
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Catnip
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:05 pm | 14th Post |
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Cruise Cat wrote:
Suicides - 'Jumpers' are going to injure themselves at the place of opportunity, whether it is a cruise ship, a building, stairway, bridge, etc. The bad rep that cruiselines get is similar to the one they get for 'Norovirus'. These things occur many places; but, the cruiselines seem to find themselves in the news for it.
I agree totally!
____________________
32 previous cruises..
Next up: Last Atlantic crossing on QE 2 10-08/Celebrity Solstice 1-09/Jewel of the Seas 3/09
**Triangles Are For Losers!**
Don't touch that triangle!
Adopt a pet from your local shelter & save a life!
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livetocruise
Cruiser
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:04 pm | 15th Post |
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hstrybuf wrote: While the news has been full of a recent incident in which a woman fell to her death from Norwegian Dawn as the ship was bound for Bermuda, three luckier passengers went overboard from cruise ships last March. Yes, they were lucky indeed. All three were rescued alive.
Is it that EASY to simply "fall" off a cruise ship? At Cruise Diva, we don't think so.
Read this and then please give us your opinions.
http://cruisediva.com/overboard.htm
It is possible to fall of any ship if you try hard enough. It take a lot of work to climb over the railings on the a balcony or any deck.
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TheWog
Charter Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:07 pm | 16th Post |
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hstrybuf wrote: not crude or in bad taste"!
doesn't that eliminate at least half of us?
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xpcdoojk
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:09 pm | 17th Post |
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Cruise Cat wrote: OK - While I feel sad for the family and friends of those who have fallen off a cruise ship, the answer is "No" unless you are jumping intentionally or doing something really stupid, in which case 'Darwin Wins' (truth, not "crude"). The fact that someone wants to jump (suicide or to get attention) is not unique to cruise ships or to those with mental or abuse issues, and I for one am not going to cry, get upset, or not discuss a relevant cruise issue such as this because we later find out they did.
Balcony railings on cruise ships meet or greatly exceed height standards set by OSHA for things such as railings/chains on scaffolds and working platforms (48 inches if I remember correctly). This is why someone, unless they are 8 feet tall cannot just fall off of a ship.
First time cruisers need to understand, that statistically, an extremely small number of passengers ever fall off of a cruise ship (several each year out of millions), and for 99.999999999999% of these, it happens because of their actions (I don't know of any that it did not, but left it open in case someone can produce verifiable facts that it wasn't). To a lesser percentage, the same applies to people falling down stairs, etc, on cruise ships. Cruising is very safe.
Amazingly, you would think that the most at risk for falling off a cruise ship would be a child in a balcony stateroom. As a tribute to the parents of the children watching them or selecting an inside/non-balcony stateroom and the design of the balconies, I don't know of any cases in recent memory where a small child has fallen off a cruise ship, do you? Then, there must be something with older children (teenagers - yes still children) and us adults to cause them to fall off cruiseships.
(OK - I got to this point and realized that I had better read the Cruise Diva article first. I just did and amazingly we came to the same conclusions about tall people/basketball superstars, children, and adults doing something stupid/intentional)
Now that we have isolated this to adults, lets discuss the categories:
Suicides - 'Jumpers' are going to injure themselves at the place of opportunity, whether it is a cruise ship, a building, stairway, bridge, etc. The bad rep that cruiselines get is similar to the one they get for 'Norovirus'. These things occur many places; but, the cruiselines seem to find themselves in the news for it.
Climbing on Railings - Whether they are drunk (or high), showing off, daredevils, practical jokers (I want to knock on your balcony door and surprise you), or were locked out on their balconies and can't wait for help, these are ACTIONS that the people have taken that have CONSEQUENCES. Yes - Getting drunk, stoned, or even side effects from medication are things people have control over that are the results of their actions. Do not take medication for the first time on a cruise ship if you do not know what the consequences are!
Mental Instability - A special sub-category of Suicides. These people feel a need to jump, but why the heck are they on a cruise ship that allows them access to harm themselves in the first place!? In the case of the young gentleman a few years ago that had abuse issues and was not stable - HIS GUARDIANS AND OTHERS SHOULD HAVE NEVER LET HIM ON A CRUISE SHIP IN THE FIRST PLACE! Likewise, he should not have been going to a party on a rooftop, or walking alone on a bridge, etc. Somewhere, even if way back, someone let these people get exposed to these things, even if it was a judge who allowed their release.
Murder - Enough said.
Adverse Weather - Help me on this... I am still trying to find the ship with such a layout that a person absolutely has to go out on a deck/balcony near a railing where they can fall off. Just stay in and call Room Service.
I may have missed a category or two.
Nope, I think you have it pretty well down.
U know Chuck, I always thought you were nuts at the darkside. I may have to reevaluate. Good post!
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TheWog
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:12 pm | 18th Post |
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Cruise Cat wrote: OK - I feel really good about this board now. I just said some of the same things I said on that frivilous board over a year ago and it didn't get poofed...
I think you will find a lot of us share your opinions on this matter. Although sad, it is usually a personal accountability problem. Do stupid things and stupid things happen.
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Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Where's my frozen umbrella drink?
Ice cream should be a food group.
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Caribbean Dad
Funnel Deck Cruiser
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 04:22 pm | 19th Post |
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TheWog wrote: Cruise Cat wrote: OK - I feel really good about this board now. I just said some of the same things I said on that frivilous board over a year ago and it didn't get poofed...
I think you will find a lot of us share your opinions on this matter. Although sad, it is usually a personal accountability problem. Do stupid things and stupid things happen.
Stupid is as stupid does. 
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Bill
RIP F-Deck 1985-2007
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Srutko1226
Charter Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 04:39 pm | 20th Post |
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After the footage I saw on a rogue wave with the sun shining and then hearing from people on the NCL Dawn who experienced one.....it made me wonder.
The wave came after the storm had pretty much abatted, I believe. My husband and I often sit on the balcony and get lulled to sleep. After the wave incident we talked about maybe not falling asleep on the balcony. An overreaction, certainly. But it did make us wonder.
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JSME
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Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 01:15 pm | 21st Post |
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hstrybuf wrote: While the news has been full of a recent incident in which a woman fell to her death from Norwegian Dawn as the ship was bound for Bermuda, three luckier passengers went overboard from cruise ships last March. Yes, they were lucky indeed. All three were rescued alive.
Is it that EASY to simply "fall" off a cruise ship? At Cruise Diva, we don't think so.
Read this and then please give us your opinions.
http://cruisediva.com/overboard.htm
I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting the link.
I agree with Chuck as well. I am terrified of getting to close to any open aired spot. I stay clear of the end of the balcony.
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Thinking about the Allure in the fall of 2010
Selena
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Caribbean Dad
Funnel Deck Cruiser
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 05:22 pm | 22nd Post |
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Srutko1226 wrote: After the footage I saw on a rogue wave with the sun shining and then hearing from people on the NCL Dawn who experienced one.....it made me wonder.
The wave came after the storm had pretty much abatted, I believe. My husband and I often sit on the balcony and get lulled to sleep. After the wave incident we talked about maybe not falling asleep on the balcony. An overreaction, certainly. But it did make us wonder.
Sorry, but that is not going to stop me from dozing on my balcony. If that's how I'm meant to go out, than so be it. It's better than getting tagged by a concrete truck after a crappy day at work.
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Bill
RIP F-Deck 1985-2007
Proud Member of ETDC
Proud Member and Inspector General of the CBG
Sun, sand, suds, and beautiful wife to share it all with.
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TheWog
Charter Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 05:28 pm | 23rd Post |
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Caribbean Dad wrote: Srutko1226 wrote: After the footage I saw on a rogue wave with the sun shining and then hearing from people on the NCL Dawn who experienced one.....it made me wonder.
The wave came after the storm had pretty much abatted, I believe. My husband and I often sit on the balcony and get lulled to sleep. After the wave incident we talked about maybe not falling asleep on the balcony. An overreaction, certainly. But it did make us wonder.
Sorry, but that is not going to stop me from dozing on my balcony. If that's how I'm meant to go out, than so be it. It's better than getting tagged by a concrete truck after a crappy day at work.
I'm with ya brotha'.
____________________
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Where's my frozen umbrella drink?
Ice cream should be a food group.
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Catnip
Charter Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 06:07 pm | 24th Post |
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TheWog wrote:
Sorry, but that is not going to stop me from dozing on my balcony. If that's how I'm meant to go out, than so be it. It's better than getting tagged by a concrete truck after a crappy day at work.
I'm with ya brotha'.
me, too!
____________________
32 previous cruises..
Next up: Last Atlantic crossing on QE 2 10-08/Celebrity Solstice 1-09/Jewel of the Seas 3/09
**Triangles Are For Losers!**
Don't touch that triangle!
Adopt a pet from your local shelter & save a life!
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livetocruise
Cruiser
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 08:57 pm | 25th Post |
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I don't a rogue is much of a problem. Most reports of people falling off indicate that they were impaired or doing something stupid (climbing between decks on the outside)
I work in an enviroment that is very hazardous . Most accidents are are causing by not following rules and proper
proceedures. I've worked in this industry for 35yrs with not accidents (not including car accidents(1) caused by hitting an animal with my personal car)
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